“Politicians’ visits to Taiwan are part of a big play”
Fabian Peltsch in conversation with Lung Ying-tai
Lung Ying-tai, bestselling author and former Minister of Culture of Taiwan, is heard by people in her Taiwanese homeland as well as on the mainland. She advocates for more mutual understanding, but vehemently defends democratic rights. In doing so, she makes enemies on both sides. Fabian Peltsch met the controversial author for a conversation in Taiwan.
Her books and essays have been read by Chinese-speaking people all over the world for 40 years. She is also one of the best-known authors on the mainland. However, her books were banned there in 2019. How did this happen?
Even before 2019, certain of my books were banned on the mainland, for example “Big River Big Sea: Untold Stories of 1949”, a book about the Chinese civil war that continues to this day. In 2019, I wrote a short Article in defense of the Hong Kong protests, and that resulted in all my books being removed from the shelves of bookstores and school libraries. I expected that. But I still get emails and letters from readers in China. They use a VPN to send me messages on Facebook, for example. Compared to before 2019, it has of course become a lot less.
You have tried to give Taiwanese people a voice in many of your books. How do you feel about the current geopolitical attention that Taiwan is receiving? Are foreign delegations wanting to shake hands with President Tsai Ing-wen a curse or a blessing for the island's security?
There is a certain irony in all this. Taiwan was isolated from the international community for 50 years because of disputes with China. And now all these foreign delegations and correspondents are flocking to the island because our homeland has become the "front line" or, as the Economist wrote, "the most dangerous place in the world." So is this a curse or a blessing?
Nancy Pelosi's visit was just one act in a larger play. The two main actors in this play are the US and China. Taiwan does not have much say in it. Yes, the threat of invasion is real. It has not been this real since the 1950s. But how close it really is is something no one can predict. There are too many factors involved. We do not know how relations between the US and China will develop. We do not know how the war in Ukraine will turn out. How that war develops will have a major impact on the fate of Taiwan.
Do Taiwanese feel more threatened today than ever before?
Outsiders often don't realize that Taiwan has been on the front lines for 70 years. We grew up knowing that war could break out at any time. My generation in particular - I was born in the 1950s - grew up with the mentality of those under siege. Look at the ocean in front of us: Taiwan is surrounded by water, but many Taiwanese can't swim. Why? As children, we didn't dare play on the beach, let alone jump into the water. The 1,200-kilometer coastline was a military zone guarded by soldiers carrying rifles and bayonets. Children were told to stay away from the beach because frogmen from China could swim across the strait and jump at us with a knife between their teeth. To this day, many access points to the water are not public. Traces of the siege mentality are everywhere.
So do people feel more threatened now than before? Yes and no. Several generations have lived with the possibility of war for so long that many people have become numb to the reality. How can you be on alert for 70 years? Taiwan has been a peaceful and prosperous society for a long time now, so it is becoming increasingly difficult to imagine war. Yes, people are aware of the danger, but it also feels unreal to them.
The government wants to extend military service. At the same time, civil defense groups such as the "Forward Alliance" are forming to better prepare Taiwan's citizens for a possible attack from the mainland.
The extension of the military draft was probably due to pressure from the United States rather than the desire of Taiwanese citizens. The self-defense organizations you speak of are indeed proliferating. For example, there is the so-called "Black Bear Academy," founded by a wealthy businessman who believes Taiwan must fight the Chinese to the death. The group trains anyone who wants to prepare for combat. For most people, however, a peaceful solution remains the main goal and war remains hard to imagine. And that is probably true of the Taiwanese government as well. In 2022, the Ministry of Defense issued a guideline for national emergencies, which includes war. In the event of a power outage, it says, people should call the service hotline of the electricity company Taiwan Power. The whole thing became a joke.
Do you think that the Taiwanese would defend themselves against China in the event of an attack with the same united forces as the Ukrainians did against the Russian invaders?
When it comes to actually taking up arms, I have my doubts. Belief in the democratic system and the Taiwanese way of life is a consensus in Taiwan. But people disagree on how to protect this system and maintain the way of life.
The fact that Taiwanese are still very divided is because of our history, which has left certain memories. There are people who feel completely alienated from China and who are committed to Taiwan's independence, whatever the cost. Then there are people who think that despite all ideological differences, the Chinese and Taiwanese are brothers and sisters and that war must be avoided at all costs. There are people who promote more mutual understanding across the Taiwan Strait. They blame the current government for bringing Taiwan to the brink of war. And then there are people who believe that the US is to blame for the crisis and that Taiwan is the victim in a hegemonic game. Last but not least, there are the farmers and fishermen. For many of them, the most important thing is to produce and catch a lot and sell it to the Chinese markets. They don't think it matters which flag flies over their heads as long as their livelihood is secure and their children are safe.
Which side do you see yourself on?
I am against war. No matter what. And I have received a lot of online hostility for this position. I believe it is important that Taiwan arms itself to achieve effective deterrence. But we should never forget that deterrence can only be part of a larger and honest effort to avoid war. Right now, all that is being talked about is arming for deterrence. Little or no attention is being paid to how to prevent war.
Would you like to see the US role in this conflict discussed more?
The US position is that Taiwan needs to arm itself to the teeth. To do that, Taiwan needs to buy weapons from the US. And the US wants to sell a lot of weapons to Taiwan. But if you just focus on building up your military without making any effort to negotiate, you're on a dangerous path. Under a different administration, Taiwan had functioning relations with China in terms of law enforcement, trade agreements and many other areas. But the way things are going now and the way they've been going for a while is to turn the island into a kind of porcupine. That's a big concern for me.
What hopes do you have for negotiations with China?
Life is not just politics. What about opening ports or establishing direct flights? Over a million Taiwanese live in China. If you include their family members, that comes to four to five million Taiwanese, out of a total population of 23 million, who have a loved one living or working in China. How about opening more airports to make it easier for these people to travel home? How about allowing more Chinese students to come to Taiwan to study? How about welcoming more tourists? How about inviting Chinese writers and artists and cultural exchange programs? Of course, this has to go both ways. Many barriers have been put up by the Chinese side. But what I mean is that China and Taiwan should not get caught in a spiral of hostility. Goodwill and gentle communication can prevent war.
How did you feel about the protests by young people in Hong Kong in 2019 and in China at the end of last year? Should younger generations in Taiwan, Hong Kong and China be more in touch with each other? Many of them seem to share the same ideals, such as freedom of expression.
There was extensive and robust networking between young people in Taiwan and Hong Kong during the Hong Kong protests. Many of the Hong Kongers who participated in the movement are now in exile in Taiwan. Not all of them have received a warm welcome from the Taiwanese government, but support for Hong Kongers in Taiwan continues. China is different. There are many young people there who are critical of their government, but they have no way to voice that publicly. As Hanna Arendt said, the first thing an authoritarian government does is make you lonely. It silences you and isolates you from like-minded people, so you never know exactly how many people out there agree with you. You are deprived of the opportunity to share your ideas and be inspired by others. The Chinese government does this very effectively, using high technology. I think China's intellectuals are some of the loneliest people in the world today.
Lung Ying-tai German versionAs a writer, she has been shaping social and political debates in the Chinese-speaking world for over 40 years. Her books “Wild Fire” and “Big River, Big Sea” are considered milestones on the way to Taiwanese self-confidence. From 1987, she lived for several years in Heidelberg, where she taught Taiwanese literature at the university.taught. From 2012 to 2014She served under President Ma Ying-jeouas Taiwan's first Minister of Culture. Her latest work “At the foot of Kavulungan” was published in German by Drachenhaus in early March. Lung Ying-tai lives todayon the southeast coast of Taiwan.